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Thread: Heel/Toe

  1. #41
    Stupid sexy shlammed shlammed's Avatar
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    whats the x scale axis there? seconds?
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
    whats the x scale axis there? seconds?
    Excel Data lines...forgot to change that to seconds. Data is logged at 10 times per second so those numbers are tenths

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by wing View Post
    If I'm reading that graph right, you are going too slow in 6/7

    I might have data would have to check the laptop
    Always gotta be one smartass in the group eh????

  4. #44
    Mike ManBeef mikeman's Avatar
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    I do it all the time, even when not "HOOOONING".. I remember learning how many moons ago after watching rally videos, now it's habit.

  5. #45
    Stupid sexy shlammed shlammed's Avatar
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    Just flat pedal the clutch and the gas, then side step the clutch.

    Fuck brakes.
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    Stupid sexy shlammed shlammed's Avatar
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    i'll double clutch but I haven't figured out heel-toe. something tells me the new clutch is going to be a little less forgiving than the OEM stuff I've been using to this point though. I'm probably gonna hafta learn.....

  8. #48
    Stupid sexy shlammed shlammed's Avatar
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    I drove my buddys rhd soarer last year and it has a 6 puck unsprung clutch with a mechanical LSD and subframe bushing collars. it doesnt rev up the same with inputs as my car does and I was having a real hard time getting the shifts right. you know when it clicks.

    It just takes a while to learn, but you will get it.



    Dont bother double clutching? idk if your serious. we dont drive 1930's army trucks.
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  9. #49
    I brake for baguettes and taco blankets mightymousetech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
    Dont bother double clutching? idk if your serious. we dont drive 1930's army trucks.
    Ya, was wondering about everybody doing this. They have invented this thing called syncros.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightymousetech View Post
    Ya, was wondering about everybody doing this. They have invented this thing called syncros.
    It was brought back in fashion in the 90s with the JDM B16 and B18 swaps in civics that grinded 2-3-4 most of the time.
    "Don't fear failure so much that you refuse to try new things. The saddest summary of a life contains three descriptions: could have, might have, and should have." -- Louis E. Boone

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    Senior Member JLats83's Avatar
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    Torretto told me too.

  12. #52
    Member dwarrick's Avatar
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    I learned to do it at the track then started doing it on the street.

    I do it the "opposite" of most at use my heel for gas, top of foot for brake. I had a hard time doing it the other way.

    It did make a difference in lap times and life of parts probably

  13. #53
    Mike ManBeef mikeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightymousetech View Post
    Ya, was wondering about everybody doing this. They have invented this thing called syncros.
    you need to double clutch in a highway tractor because it doesn't have synchros
    except it has straight cut gears
    so you can just rev match instead
    so you don't need to double clutch

  14. #54
    Senior Member sb_600's Avatar
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    only time i double clutched was going into 5th in the chumpcar, because the synchros were fubarred. then the tranny was fubarred so that problem fixed itself, really.
    Shawn
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    1992 BMW 3.0L M52 325i


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    had a hard time doing it in the Miata until I installed a gas pedal extender (still have it if anyone want's it) Now with the 370Z and rev-match, I look like a champ even though I have 2 left feet
    Ex Girly car boy!

  16. #56
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    Found this a good read. NOTE that this is for sequential NON-syncromesh boxes. Like the Bike engine in our car. It explains why I don't need to "blip" when down shifting and braking. Gonna have to try the "Load,Lift,Shift" upshifts this year.

    Methods of Changing Gear.

    By William Hewland.

    The following is some info regarding shifting gear and face dog wear. I am in the fortunate position where I have a good amount of knowledge on the subject, as I understand the mechanical side and the user (driver) side equally well.

    N.B. For succesful gear shifting, remember that it is critical to ensure that all mechanical elements between the drivers hand and the dog faces are in good order and properly set. This includes the gear linkage in the chassis!

    Successful up-shifting, (defined as fast and non dog-damaging) will be achieved by fully moving the dog ring as rapidly as possible from one gear to the next, preferably with the engine's driving load removed until the shift is completed. (The opposite is true of a synchromesh gearbox as used in passenger cars, where slow movement helps). It should be remembered that it is not possible to damage the dogs when fully engaged (in gear). The damage can only take place when initiating contact during a shift, (the `danger zone`) therefore this element must be made as short as possible. If a driver moves the gear lever slowly, or if the linkage is not rigid and effective, dog wear will occur. We always recommend lightweight yet solid rod linkage, not cables ideally.

    I list below the different methods of up-shifting that are used in racing most commonly. The best at the top, the worst at the bottom:

    Automated (semi automated). The movement of the dog ring is powered and the engine is cut / re-instated in a co-ordinated manner. Gear-shifts take milliseconds. This system produces zero dog wear when set up well. It is not applicable to most cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing.

    Manual with engine cut. This system is almost as good as an automated one as long as the driver pulls the lever very quickly. Again it is not applicable to many cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing. A `cheat` version of this is to shift on the engine rev limiter, which can work well. With this system it is especially important to move the lever ultra fast, otherwise the engine will be reinstated during partial dog engagement, causing damage. The damage can usually be felt by the driver.

    Manual.
    Best method: With no assistance from the engine management, the driver must lift off the throttle sufficiently to allow the dog ring to be pulled out of engagement. He should then stay off the throttle long enough to allow the dog ring to engage with the next gear. In practice, the driver can move the gear lever faster than he can move his foot off and back on to the throttle. Therefore the effective method is to apply load to the gear lever with your hand and then lift the throttle foot off and back on to the pedal as fast as physically possible. In lifting your foot, the loaded gear lever will almost involuntarily flick to the next gear before the foot is re-applied to the throttle.

    Another method is to load the gear lever with your hand, stay flat on the throttle and dab the clutch to release the dog ring. The overall effect on the gear shift is similar to the above method, but clutch wear may become a big issue.

    The worst method (most destructive and definitely slowest) is to attempt to change gear in a `passenger car / synchromesh` way, i.e. lifting off the throttle, dipping the clutch, moving the gear lever, letting the clutch up and re-instating the throttle. The method causes unnecessary clutch wear, does absolutely nothing to help come out of gear and usually causes dog wear whilst engaging the next gear. This wear is due to several reasons. Firstly, it is impossible for a driver to co-ordinate the complicated sequence of all five physical movements accurately. Consequently the engagement dogs often find themselves engaging whilst the throttle is applied. The lever is usually pulled more slowly as it was not pre-loaded, lengthening the `danger zone`.

    Successful down-shifting, has similar rules applied regarding speed of shift. Unloading the dogs is done in the opposite manner obviously. Whilst braking, the dogs must be unloaded by either touching the throttle pedal or- my preferred method- by dipping the clutch. However, one sharp dab of clutch or throttle is appropriate per shift. Continued pressure on either will cause dog damage for different reasons. `Blipping the throttle` just before engagement is advisable if the rev drops between gears are over 1300 rpm, as this will aid engagement and stabilise the car.

    TOP TIP for ease of downshifting: Make the downshifts as late as possible in your braking zone (i.e. at lower road speed), because the rev drops between each gear are then lower. So many drivers make the mistake of downshifting as soon as they begin braking, causing gearbox wear, engine damage and `disruption` to the driving wheels.

    This is a subject which can be much expanded on, but I feel that these are the basics, which I hope are of use.

    William Hewland,
    President, Hewland Engineering.

  17. #57
    Elite Member wing's Avatar
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    Sounds exactly how Matt explained it to me when I bought the radical so that's how I did it.

    I would hold the lever with a little pressure full throttle, then lift foot, lever goes back and falls into gear and foot goes back down. Happens really fast.

    On downshift would blip and stab at clutch just a little not fully disengage and it slips in.
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  18. #58
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    This is definitely going onto the new car.
    http://flatshifter.com/flatshifter-expert/

  19. #59
    Elite Member wing's Avatar
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    Talk to Bill Olders, I think he has one for sale.
    Driver for hire....

  20. #60
    Senior Member figo's Avatar
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    I can brake with half my toes and foot and roll or pivot my foot to hit the throttle, only with certain shoes (size 13). I don't have any room to move my legs in my car and I'm seated improperly, but a blast to drive lol

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