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  1. #21
    Senior Member raggedrabbit's Avatar
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    I spent my second year with AISA in the noob group because my car was too slow (I asked to get bumped). Waste of time imo, there is no racecraft on that side of things.

    It was great the first year I was out though. No love lost as a lapping school. It's a good deal for the track time.

    Edit: props for Jethro, yeah the flag stuff from AISA was good.
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  2. #22
    da battery guy dbg's Avatar
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    I've only ever done the BMW school at Tremblant - mainly because that's one of the few ways to get in there. Yes, they don't move you up in the run groups until they see your improvement. I went two years ago when I was very much a newb, and again this summer. Despite asking about my experience level they went with my previous instructor's review and put me in the newbie run group (well actually I don't think they let any true newbs in that weekend - everyone had some track experience). The first thing my instructor said after my first session was that I was in the wrong run group; he asked to have me moved but I guess the groups were pretty full. Wasn't really a problem; after a couple of sessions most of the drivers were putting their hand out the window as soon as they saw me, and by the second day most of the other drivers were improving a lot so the speed differential wasn't as bad. Sunday afternoon some people started leaving early so they went open lapping for the signed-off drivers, and I was able to get a bunch of clean laps.

    The event I was at was run by the Boston BMW club. Yes they are stricter and do some things differently, but I will say that they have really good instructors and it was a great experience. Not sure I'd bother with BMW at Calabogie from what I've heard, but I like the way they run it at Tremblant.

    MCO is a great place to start out. Well-run events with strictly enforced rules so it's very safe, but the rules are very reasonable (whereas BMW has a few over-the-top rules IMHO, especially relating to convertibles).

    AISA sounds interesting... will have to try it.
    Last edited by dbg; December 4th, 2014 at 10:53am.

  3. #23
    Elite Member wing's Avatar
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    From the sounds of it I'll never do a BMW school cause I'm not going to stick in a beginner group for 2 days sucking my thumb lol.

    AISA school is good if you want a license but as a beginner I think MCO or BMW offers a more relaxed atmosphere that is more about fun and safety and less about performance.
    Driver for hire....

  4. #24
    Dramagnet Jethro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raggedrabbit View Post
    I spent my second year with AISA in the noob group because my car was too slow (I asked to get bumped). Waste of time imo, there is no racecraft on that side of things.

    It was great the first year I was out though. No love lost as a lapping school. It's a good deal for the track time.

    Edit: props for Jethro, yeah the flag stuff from AISA was good.
    I was in corner 20 on the AISA weekend you did. Slick inside move on that Civic brah.

  5. #25
    Senior Member raggedrabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    I was in corner 20 on the AISA weekend you did. Slick inside move on that Civic brah.
    Thanks boss.
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  6. #26
    Dramagnet Jethro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raggedrabbit View Post
    Thanks boss.
    no probs.

  7. #27
    The Real Grabber
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    MCO + 1morelap this year. AISA and GT series next year. AISA will give you the most race craft, GT series, will make you explore your limits like never before....

  8. #28
    Senior Member sb_600's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechs02 View Post
    MCO + 1morelap this year. AISA and GT series next year. AISA will give you the most race craft, GT series, will make you explore your limits like never before....
    that's a good plan right thur
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  9. #29
    Senior Member raggedrabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sb_600 View Post
    that's a good plan right thur
    +1
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  10. #30
    Contributing Member Mario's Avatar
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    Where I learned the most was with the BMW club of Quebec at Tremblant. Like Doug said, they don't make it easy for you to move up, but I think the real problem is there stupid registration form, which only ask you about the lapping schools you've done, and not your overall experience has a driver. I think GT racing and being an instructor changes things. They do have high standards for performance driving compare to the MCO


    Anyway, 2 years ago I got this fucking asshole has an instructor, Sebastien, the guy simply thought my driving was shit, and he kept yelling at me the whole fucking day. This was a 2 day event and I almost told him to fuck off, I was so pissed to have paid for that shit, but the next morning everything he was screaming at me about, I was doing perfectly. Oddly enough, I’ve never learned so much before or since. It completely changed the way I drive. The guy had 20 years of real racing experience though, but still, has an instructor, you should make sure your student has fun

    So the moral of the story is, one day, one instructor will make a huge difference, regardless of the club.


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  11. #31
    Senior Member sb_600's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario View Post
    So the moral of the story is, one day, one instructor will make a huge difference, regardless of the club.
    Another plus about the AISA school - you get a variety of instructors throughout the weekend so you learn a lot of different perspectives.
    Shawn
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  12. #32
    Contributing Member Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sb_600 View Post
    Another plus about the AISA school - you get a variety of instructors throughout the weekend so you learn a lot of different perspectives.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested by what ASE can teach me.

    In all fairness, my previous comment was based on my first experience I had with the group. It happened at GT race I did a couple of years ago, right after an ASE lapping day and some of these guys who learned dive bombing that day (that's what I was told), also registered and raced with us. The whole fucking race, I was stuck on the bumper of a black fuckin Civic, who wouldn't point me by and behind me I had his friend, dive bombing me every chance he got. The good part of this shitty story is, I ended up first of GT2. Lol

    That same year, I went with you guys at Mosport at the end of the season. I had a great time. There is something much better with their no point by rule. Everybody is kinda more aware and nobody wants to be that asshole, so it all works out really good. That's why I want to run with them again. Its special


    All I care about is my Porsche... and like maybe 3 people. —Unknown

  13. #33
    Gay on Penis GoP-Demon's Avatar
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    Is this dive bombing?

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  14. #34
    Contributing Member Mario's Avatar
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    Default 2015 AISA Driving Academy St-Estache or Calabogie

    Yep
    It's out braking your opponent and taking the inside of a curve.

    It's dangerous because 2 cars at high speeds, driving 10/10 are taking 2 different lines coming into the corner, resulting in very different apex and exit so the chances of collisions are high, but that's one of the ways race cars pass each other.

    That guy in the video wasn't successful because he ended up in the grass though
    Last edited by Mario; December 4th, 2014 at 03:29pm.


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  15. #35
    Senior Member sb_600's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario View Post
    Yep
    It's out braking your opponent and taking the inside of a curve.

    It's dangerous because 2 cars at high speeds, driving 10/10 are taking 2 different lines coming into the corner, resulting in very different apex and exit so the chances of collisions are high, but that's one of the ways race cars pass each other.
    IMO, and I could be wrong:


    Dive-bombing is when you don't have room to pass anymore, and you take the inside line in the corner, forcing the other car to adjust their line. Basically if the lead car has started their turn into the apex, and the passing car squeezes in.

    There is a difference between dive-boming and late passing - late passing is a braking zone pass - you get up side-by-side with the car during braking (before any turning is initiated), and therefore "take" the line away from the outside car by outbraking.

    However, often in racing the lines are blurred between these two.

    GOP - that video you posted, IMO, would have been a late pass (yes the outside guy started his turn in, but it was really just setting up the car at that point). lead car left the door WIDE open and didn't have to change his turn-in at all. That being said, the passing car was too eager and couldn't brake enough lol.
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  16. #36
    Contributing Member Mario's Avatar
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    You are right that the term 'dive bombing' is associated with being an asshole. When its properly done, you don’t call it that. You call it a great pass. The guy in the video was good enough not to affect the other car's trajectory, but failed, so IMO it was a dive bomb. Lol


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  17. #37
    Contributing Member Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sb_600 View Post
    Dive-bombing is when you don't have room to pass anymore, and you take the inside line in the corner, forcing the other car to adjust their line. Basically if the lead car has started their turn into the apex, and the passing car squeezes in.
    This to the extreme is T-Boning, right?


    All I care about is my Porsche... and like maybe 3 people. —Unknown

  18. #38
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    That pass was clean, if not properly executed.

    Dive-bombing is when you know going in that you cannot stop in time and yet still choose to brake late on the inside of corner. Always involves contact, unless the driver being passed is super vigilant and sees you coming and brakes harder to avoid a collision.

    In the rules for almost all forms of non-professional racing it is up to the person making the pass to make sure it is safe. In fact several racing series have a 13/13 rule that basically states if you cause a collision you are on probation for 13 months, you cause a second one in that period your race license is suspended for 13 months. This helps keeps some of the hotheads from coming together and makes for better racing. We are after all not winning any money for making that pass "stick".

    Having said all that, many of the Quebec racers have a reputation (maybe deserved, maybe not) for dive bombing others at our race Ontario events. Heck we still have some body work to fix on Rob's race car from the last Ted Powell he went to with it. He was on the inside half a car length ahead of the other car when that guy decided "now would be a good time to turn in". Frame and body work dented in about a 6 inches behind the driver's door. He did not realize that a car on slick can very easily out-brake a car on road tires. Also remember an incident when a car made a dive-bomb on one of our racers at the 2h45m mark of 3 hour race. The pass was in corner 5 at Mosport, the guy passing was just doing it to be a tool as he was passing a car that was not in his class at all. Disabled the car who had a 2nd place finish in class pretty much in the bag.
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  19. #39
    da battery guy dbg's Avatar
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    When I took the Bridgestone racing course, they taught us to do this. Completely legit pass if done correctly. IF.

    Yes you outbrake them on the inside, and force them to slow down more and off line. If you do it properly you should "present" yourself so they know you're there. You then get inside and outbrake - but it's very important to position yourself correctly. You want to be far enough up that he can't turn in and cut you off, so he has no choice but to continue braking and taking a wider and slower corner. You get the apex, he ends up slower outside, you're in front.

    If you overdo and get too far ahead then he can cut in behind you and catch you on the corner exit. The trick is to maintain your position relative to him so he's forced off line.

    Obviously there is a risk of collision doing this - that's racing - but if you do it correctly you're in his face and he has to back off. So it's a completely legit pass and not excessively dangerous as long as you do it right and everyone has got their heads up. If you fuck it up then... not.

  20. #40
    Dramagnet Jethro's Avatar
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    Lurker...I remember that incident from Powell. That guy was raging forever.

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