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RandomHer0
March 27th, 2013, 10:48am
Pretty scary and even more concerning is the reports of "Ice Mode" with the BRZ/FRS

I've had ABS kick in a few times (even though I turn it off its never completely off) and it can be a hairy experience, especially after Rocky Road and it it upsets the car.

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=27191

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1973874-Brake-Failure-amp-Wreck-in-E36-M3-at-VIR


The brake failure was a malfunction of the ABS system that people like to call "ice mode." While I didn't lose all my braking power, I lost about 90% of it. As I mentioned in the video description...

"Going frame by frame in the video and doing the math... between the 600 and 500 ft brake markers I was going 113 mph. Between the 100 foot marker and the turn-in arrow, I was still going 97 mph."


97 mph turn-in speed is kinda high for turn 1, lol. There were two reasons I decided to turn in as opposed to going straight. First was to stay on the pavement for as long as possible to scrub off as much speed as possible before hitting tires. I wasn't going to slow the car down any more in the grass, that's for sure. Second was that I was worried about spinning sideways in the grass and flipping the car. I did NOT want to flip the car without a HANS device.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bos8YsUWlA8&feature=player_embedded

Slick
March 27th, 2013, 10:59am
I had it happen in my 99 Miata at the track, was not fun as I almost ended up off-track. It extended my braking point by about 30 feet, but luckily had some brake pressure again in time to make the turn.

Pete
March 27th, 2013, 11:03am
Heard that, seen the videos, read a little about it.

Most issues comes from newer cars with "too much" ABS computer systems in the way. Newers systems are not just Anti-Lock anymore, they are full blown "we will try to save your ass if I think you are screwed" systems.

It all comes down to cars being faster, drivers driving hard and parts of the cars(computer in this case) not being up to the task. Sucks but there is not much you can do about it, short of pulling the ABS fuse at the track.

NoLimits Autoparts
March 27th, 2013, 11:04am
Pretty helpless feeling when the abs kicks in eh, I find my trucks abs horrible at super low speeds in parking lots for example, 5kmh, and two feet pushing on the peddle and its kicking back like hell with the truck still rolling along, above that it works allright. Is it a law or something from manufacturers that the abs system cannot be turned off 100%?

CRXZC
March 27th, 2013, 11:24am
Pretty helpless feeling when the abs kicks in eh, I find my trucks abs horrible at super low speeds in parking lots for example, 5kmh, and two feet pushing on the peddle and its kicking back like hell with the truck still rolling along, above that it works allright. Is it a law or something from manufacturers that the abs system cannot be turned off 100%?

Yeah the GM ABS Systems were terrible. Especially on the Jimmy... OMG. Worst feeling ever...

Doing like 40 on a snow covered road coming up to a stop sign and absolutely no chance of stopping... start swerving back and fourth frantically (which is much safer of course!).

I pulled the fuse asap after a couple close calls.

shlammed
March 27th, 2013, 11:29am
my old GTI would actuate abs all of the time too on anything besides dry, level, uncracked pavement.
literally anything would make it go off. pain in the ass!

TTC
March 27th, 2013, 11:34am
By far the worst was my 2002 WRX. Going over railroad tracks would trigger it. It was so bad I would just pull the fuse and leave it at that. Luckily in 1985 they didn't have such a thing :D Then again in 1985 they didn't really have much lol.

Honestly as far as braking goes I dont know you guys deal with abs. I find it gets in my way. I also duno how you guys deal with such touchy grabby brakes. I like a bit of pressure in the pedal to slow down.

figo
March 27th, 2013, 11:36am
abs and traction control is too luxurious for my car lol

TTC
March 27th, 2013, 11:37am
Carpet and power windows are to luxurious for my car lol

raggedrabbit
March 27th, 2013, 11:42am
Yeah the GM ABS Systems were terrible. Especially on the Jimmy... OMG. Worst feeling ever...

Doing like 40 on a snow covered road coming up to a stop sign and absolutely no chance of stopping... start swerving back and fourth frantically (which is much safer of course!).

I pulled the fuse asap after a couple close calls.

I still haven't replaced the fuse in my Astro. Flippin' useless brakes in the snow.

yanrider
March 27th, 2013, 11:46am
Pretty sure applying the handbrake deactivate ABS. Works for me in the auto-x stop box

shlammed
March 27th, 2013, 11:48am
adjust handbrake so one click up doesnt drag?

yanrider
March 27th, 2013, 11:58am
Not what I meant but maybe. More for when a situation happens


adjust handbrake so one click up doesnt drag?

Blind
March 27th, 2013, 12:48pm
never had it come on at the track, which is weird because its super touchy on the wrx.

dwarrick
March 27th, 2013, 02:10pm
Cobalt has ABS but is pretty friendly. I guess I have gotten used to it and it doesn't affect me.

raggedrabbit
March 27th, 2013, 02:36pm
I remember MS3s had the same issue a few years back, a few cars ate the wall

TTC
March 27th, 2013, 02:49pm
Lol@technorogy

Carbs and drum brakes for all!!

daft_mx5
March 27th, 2013, 03:07pm
You are so Steampunk Tom.

clean sanchez
March 27th, 2013, 03:54pm
there's not much scarier than hitting the brakes about to enter a corner at high speed and getting no reaction. better in a car than bike but still bbbbad

1Morelap
March 27th, 2013, 04:53pm
ugh, 2 minutes before first person says , you ok bro?


I did not want to flip the car without a hans device wut.

Threshold braking is key. Pulled the fuse from the stang years ago. The new car has robots to handle it, it flashes a message on console saying we're now using ABS as I go through turn 10.

Mario
March 27th, 2013, 05:06pm
That’s good to know the hand brake thing, but that would be a strange move at the end of Rocky road.

yanrider
March 27th, 2013, 06:19pm
Not as strange as plowing in the tire wall. But this should be researched. Not sure it will work on all cars.


That’s good to know the hand brake thing, but that would be a strange move at the end of Rocky road.

Lizard King
March 27th, 2013, 06:32pm
we're now using ABS as I go through turn 10.


LOL.

We are now using.

We.

The car says ok. "hey Bawddy, let's adjust things a bit here..." and helps out a bit.

The equivalent in Ford land is a full out intervention. 'Yo Bawddy! I'm gonna just fuckn take over and ruin your fuckn day.' BRRRBRRRBRR...Ingintion cut...BRRRB BRRR... FUCK YOU!!

Northern Rider
March 27th, 2013, 06:36pm
My SRT8 has ABS - but gives me 3 options - full nanny mode; wag my tail - and - You're totally on your own, bud . . . .

Pete
March 27th, 2013, 06:40pm
'Yo Bawddy! I'm gonna just fuckn take over and ruin your fuckn day.' BRRRBRRRBRR...Ingintion cut...BRRRB BRRR... FUCK YOU!!

I just had the mental image of you screaming and cursing in your car :pond:

Lizard King
March 27th, 2013, 06:41pm
I just had the mental image of you screaming and cursing in your car :pond:

...and it was a very accurate mental image.

TTC
March 27th, 2013, 06:50pm
I want a Pontiac g8. Gt. IS that wrong?

awndray
March 27th, 2013, 06:55pm
Nope. They're cool.

1Morelap
March 27th, 2013, 07:00pm
The equivalent in Ford land is a full out intervention. 'Yo Bawddy! I'm gonna just fuckn take over and ruin your fuckn day.' BRRRBRRRBRR...Ingintion cut...BRRRB BRRR... FUCK YOU!!

LOL nail hammer crabshoot!

RandomHer0
March 27th, 2013, 07:02pm
LOL

wing
March 27th, 2013, 08:32pm
some here confusing ABS and stability control... I've never seen an ABS button, only traction and stability control.

I've hit the ABS in the s2000 on very rare occasions, but it was pretty good at not interfering... or I was not locking the wheels.

Shannonville is bad because you hit a bump, suspension unloads under braking then ABS goes nuts.

mightymousetech
March 27th, 2013, 08:55pm
Was wondering about that. I know on the BMW's the ABS is quite good. Racing in the rain, you just mash the brakes as hard as you can and let the computer figure it out.

Jethro
March 27th, 2013, 09:47pm
ABS on my mercedes does the ice mode thing. Maybe its a german thing?
Mustang doesn't.

Stability control on the mercedes will move the steering wheel if it feels it needs to counter steer a sideways condition with the power applied (9b-10 calabogie). Is disconcerting at first. Kinda rips it outta your hand in a "NO I got this" kinda way.

The mustang will push the brake pedal down with foot on the gas (can hear an air escaping sound) under the same conditions. Happens in sport mode and full nanny mode. The owners manual states that this will happen under certain "extreme driving conditions". Makes for an abrupt transition.

Legacy
March 27th, 2013, 09:56pm
never had it come on at the track, which is weird because its super touchy on the wrx.

That's been my experience as well even while running slicks. Unless its wet it pretty much never engages, even at Shannonville. Funny enough I've blown the stop box at autox or plowed through cones but maybe thats all the cracks in the parking lot, if you think the wrx is bad try a Forester based abs. Its easily 10x worse. My wife's wrx stops much better in the snow and doesnt engage abs all that much. On the Forester I pull the fuse the first day of snow and leave it all winter.

Northern Rider
March 27th, 2013, 10:29pm
ABS on my mercedes does the ice mode thing. Maybe its a german thing?
Mustang doesn't.

Stability control on the mercedes will move the steering wheel if it feels it needs to counter steer a sideways condition with the power applied (9b-10 calabogie). Is disconcerting at first. Kinda rips it outta your hand in a "NO I got this" kinda way.

The mustang will push the brake pedal down with foot on the gas (can hear an air escaping sound) under the same conditions. Happens in sport mode and full nanny mode. The owners manual states that this will happen under certain "extreme driving conditions". Makes for an abrupt transition.

My 06 SRT8 ABS and stability control is essentially a Mercedes system from the E class and S class sedans. Stability control can be 'dumbed down' on all of the V8's, but the ABS is not affected - except on the SRT8 6.1 litre versions.

The Chrysler SRT8 guys set it up so that it is possible to turn both ABS and ESP (stability control) completely off from the cockpit - if you choose that option.

So far, in 155,000 km of driving, I haven't encountered the 'ice mode' thing. Hope it stays that way . . .

yanrider
March 28th, 2013, 06:55am
So, you could always anothe TM move when brakes fails. Its called the twothreetwo

TTC
March 28th, 2013, 09:40am
Lol Yan.

I12XLR8
March 28th, 2013, 10:39am
I want a Pontiac g8. Gt. IS that wrong?

Do it! Just don't get black, that colour is taken.

Bradford
March 28th, 2013, 10:45am
I don't have ABS :(

I12XLR8
March 28th, 2013, 10:53am
Last season, not knowing the car very well, I thought my ABS/Traction control was kicking in at the tip of The Beak. It happened every time, only on that corner, and it was LOUD. Turns out it was my rim tearing into the Brembo's. There was only business card clearance to begin with. Damn it ;-( Wheel spacers should give me the clearance I need for this season.

The G8 didn't seem to take too much control away when the car started to skid, but that's likely because I wasn't pushing it hard enough and at this level of experience the assistance was welcome. I'm sure once I start pushing harder I'll want to disable it (well, the traction control anyways).

mikeman
March 28th, 2013, 10:59am
Haven't had the ABS kick on in the mustang at the track. First winter I had it, I almost rolled into Fred's house at 12km/h.. it wouldn't fucking slow down - pulled the handbrake, ABS seemed to stay on even though the back wheels were locked... but at least the built up snow helped me slow down enough to take the corner.

I think I will yank the fuse when I'm at the track from now on..

Lizard King
March 28th, 2013, 12:56pm
Newer models have to be light years ahead of my design.

Jethro
March 28th, 2013, 01:15pm
Newer models have to be light years of my design.

"Disengage all traction aids, depress gas, sidestep clutch, merge into traffic"?

mikeman
March 28th, 2013, 01:53pm
only when wet.

TTC
March 28th, 2013, 01:55pm
Do it! Just don't get black, that colour is taken.

I priced em out. A: they are stupidly rare. B thats an expensive fuckin pontiac

Mystake
March 28th, 2013, 02:53pm
Lol@technorogy

Carbs and drum brakes for all!!


Woo!

I12XLR8
March 29th, 2013, 09:19am
I priced em out. A: they are stupidly rare. B thats an expensive fuckin pontiac

When I bought mine a few years ago you could pick them up for around 27k. They haven't come down much since due to the rarity. Don't be fooled by the Pontiac badging though...it's not like anything they'd put on the road in the past.

If I had to do it again I would have spent the extra time and money to bring up a manual from the states. 6.2L would just be a bonus ;-)

TTC
March 29th, 2013, 09:21am
Yours is auto?

Andre
March 29th, 2013, 09:32am
G8 GT's are all auto. I think manual was only available in the GXP's which were south of the border.

Definately on the short list for an eventual CTS replacement for me.

I12XLR8
March 29th, 2013, 09:41am
G8 GT's are all auto. I think manual was only available in the GXP's which were south of the border

This.

TTC
March 29th, 2013, 10:08am
Stupid holden

I12XLR8
March 29th, 2013, 12:00pm
Holden had it right. It's GM North America that decided we would only appreciate a four door if it was automatic. Unfortunately it's what the masses want.

With the paddle shifting its much more bearable when you want to be a hooligan ;-)

1Morelap
March 29th, 2013, 12:28pm
yah man, great car, 4 door vetter. The paddle shifters just take it up a notch. really impressive.