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t
December 6th, 2011, 12:29pm
Gang,

Was reading the latest Car and Driver......and they were talking about HANS devices.

They certainly look like the ticket. Was wondering if anyone had some first hand knowledge with these things?

So that got me thinking.....what about a fire system? pull the trigger and the pre-aimed nozzles do their thing.

This is like trying to get more HP...where do you stop?

All comments will be read and really appreciated.

Word

t

figo
December 6th, 2011, 12:33pm
4-5 point harness, i would get a hans device

fire, get one to get you out alive, maybe secondary to save whatever can be saved. i would not pre position the nozzles

sb_915
December 6th, 2011, 12:54pm
I picked up a HANS device from Carl @ Perry Performance last year. VERY glad i did. Easy to use, and I feel naked driving without it. I leave it attached to my helmet so i never forget. I only use it on track though - not at AutoX events. As above, ONLY use with a 4/5pt harness, which you should only have with rollover protection. Base models are in the $600-$700 range IIRC.

It's expensive, but one of those things that you buy hoping you never need. And if you do need it and don't have it... well, it's too late to matter at that point.

I didn't do fire protection last year, but am seriously considering it this year. Depends on funds - like you said... where does it end?

Andre
December 6th, 2011, 01:38pm
I can't offer any expertise, but a question: when you talk about aiming the nozzles do you mean aim them at the driver? To buy some time while you unclip yourself? Or are trying to save the car?

t
December 6th, 2011, 02:01pm
My P car is prone (supposedly!) to engine fires.

I had a small one last year.

Because it is a 4 cylinder, all the action is on the passenger side.

I was talking today to an old race-car driver (who so wisely said "Race cars and wives do not mix") and he suggested a nozzle aimed towards the fuel rail/manifold area will do the trick.

These systems are not cheap ($500-$700) but then again cars are not cheap.

t

daft_mx5
December 6th, 2011, 02:24pm
Keep a box of baking soda in the car.

RandomHer0
December 6th, 2011, 02:35pm
or a small extinguisher?

Gojira
December 6th, 2011, 02:46pm
I keep a fire extinguisher ziptied to my harness bar (the holder is ziptied, not the extinguisher) and I have a kart neck brace that sorta act like a hans device which came free with my helmet but I never use it. It's yours to try next year if you want :)

Looks like this:
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/847/864/370/370864847_795.JPG

t
December 6th, 2011, 04:06pm
G

prob will take you up on that!

keep in mind my neck is way thicker than yours.

t

Mechs02
December 6th, 2011, 04:57pm
I went the opposite direction - Fire protection first, and looking to do Hans this year... not sure if it just works with any helmet or if i need a new one. You're right about it being expensive, but if you ever need it, it will be the best investment you've ever made.

As for cost of fire equip...check out k1 race gear - http://www.k1racegear.com/ i got fully outfitted with all race ready stuff including suit, shoes, gloves, underwear shirt and stockings, balaclava, socks, for i think around $700 IIRC. Light weight, comfy. I wear the suit shoes and gloves when doing lapping and gentlemen's stuff, the underwear is for full our CASC sanctioned races.


I picked up a HANS device from Carl @ Perry Performance last year. VERY glad i did. Easy to use, and I feel naked driving without it. I leave it attached to my helmet so i never forget. I only use it on track though - not at AutoX events. As above, ONLY use with a 4/5pt harness, which you should only have with rollover protection. Base models are in the $600-$700 range IIRC.

It's expensive, but one of those things that you buy hoping you never need. And if you do need it and don't have it... well, it's too late to matter at that point.

I didn't do fire protection last year, but am seriously considering it this year. Depends on funds - like you said... where does it end?

sb_915
December 6th, 2011, 04:59pm
^ you're right - you need an SA rated helmet, preferrably one with pre-drilled holes for the posts. HJC makes one for ~$300-$350

Mechs02
December 6th, 2011, 05:06pm
I have an SA2005 Bell Helmet, no holes though. Will a qualified shop installed the posts for me?

figo
December 6th, 2011, 05:16pm
You could install your own posts, hans kits have instructions to do it yourself. I've went into good times centre on huntclub and they have certified techs who could do it.

figo
December 6th, 2011, 05:38pm
Pretty sure Speed Merchant sells Hans, I know someone who bought one 2 years ago there but I never personally asked Pat if they do.

Those pre set nozzles im not too sold on, unless you have a lot invested under the hood, but fires will spread and very fast. If you use mathanol or any pure alcohol fuel, i would get nozzles point at me lol those will burn you and you won't see any flames. I would get one extinguisher in drivers reach to get you out safe, maybe another one in trunk or somewhere you can add the weight and get at to save what you can.

t
December 6th, 2011, 09:58pm
naturally- extinguishers in the car.

turning into a worrier...getting old.

i am going to look into all of this.

its just money (ie fancy paper) right?

thanx gang for input so far.

t

TTC
December 6th, 2011, 11:19pm
Most fords come with a fuel cut off device that trips when you hit something hard. It's in the trunk in a ficus and easily transplanted.

Jethro
December 7th, 2011, 07:43am
Most fords come with a fuel cut off device that trips when you hit something hard. It's in the trunk in a ficus and easily transplanted.

Trunk, drivers side. One wire, inertia breaker on top.
Also found in ford escorts. Same place.
Take the bracket as well to save you troubles.

karmaboy
December 7th, 2011, 07:50am
Pretty sure Speed Merchant sells Hans, I know someone who bought one 2 years ago there but I never personally asked Pat if they do.

Those pre set nozzles im not too sold on, unless you have a lot invested under the hood, but fires will spread and very fast. If you use mathanol or any pure alcohol fuel, i would get nozzles point at me lol those will burn you and you won't see any flames. I would get one extinguisher in drivers reach to get you out safe, maybe another one in trunk or somewhere you can add the weight and get at to save what you can.


+1 on Speed Merchants...they did the post install on my Simpson Helmet.
Not many discounts on these...so if your going retail...go local.
FYI...make sure your harness is Hans friendly.

sb_915
December 7th, 2011, 12:44pm
^2in belts are preferable, but you can still use 3in no problem.

figo
December 8th, 2011, 11:41pm
What are your opinions about a 4pt non submarine harness (http://www.schrothracing.com/store/Competition/profi-asm/profi-II-asm)/harness bar, proper seat and keeping the airbag? (schroth also works with a hans) I feel that if I keep my oem seats and slide around but add a cg-lock won't keep me in place.

For an occasional track and occasional street car, I know it's always all or nothing with safety but i don't want to install a roll cage yet since I don't want to drive on the streets with a helmet and a 5 or 6pt harness.

thoughts?

sb_915
December 9th, 2011, 08:17am
A couple things:

1 - a 4pt will be the same as a 5pt in the event of a rollover - if the roof crushes, you're stuck there and your spine will crush too.

2 - The problem with the 4 point is that it will naturally ride up too high when you tighten the shoulder belts. This will move the lap belt from your pelvis (one of the strongest parts of your body) to you belly (where soft internal organs are located). In the event of an accident, you'd be SOL if your lap belt is not positioned properly, which is FAR more likely with a 4pt setup.

IMO, have a proper roll bar with bracing made, and go with a 5pt. Keep you OEM belt for the street, and then a 5 pt for the track. The rolll bar will be behind your headrest, so you won't need a helmet for street driving. If your car is going to be for occational track purposes only and not racing, I have 2 expired 5 pt belts that I could sell you for cheap (they expired in oct/dec 2011). Always been stored indoors, other than this summer when they were in the car (only one season of use).

figo
December 9th, 2011, 09:05am
I was just wondering if that ASM will let you move foward like a oem 3pt, wouldn't it in a roll over act like a 3pt?

**this is their pitch on the anti submarining 4th down http://www.schrothracing.com/main/Engineering **

figo
December 9th, 2011, 09:15am
I think eventually my car will end up track only, then cage and everything will be done. It's either that or I find a track car, I alwyas go back and forth but I would to spend a bit on safety this year so it's not a worry in the back of my mind going on lapping days.

jmitchell
December 9th, 2011, 09:42am
That's what my car is at right now. 6 point cage, buckets, harnesses, all going in this winter. It'll be fucking terrible on the street and the track.

Eventually will buy another street only car and the CRX will get towed to the track.

sb_915
December 9th, 2011, 09:47am
I was just wondering if that ASM will let you move foward like a oem 3pt, wouldn't it in a roll over act like a 3pt?

**this is their pitch on the anti submarining 4th down http://www.schrothracing.com/main/Engineering **

Roll over - i don't think so. The 3pt belt will allow your body to slide sideways. if you are restrained on both shoulders, your body is fixed to the seat, and your upper body can't move in a rollover situation. There's debate as to what are the "real" risks for this situation are though so do your own research to be certain.

I was talking to Arek (8Legs Racing) wednesday about a rollover he had at shannonville in a street car - roof was completely crushed and he moved so much that this shoulder scraped on the ground through the open window. It sounds scary, but he thinks the main reason he survived was because the OEM belt & seat allowed his body to move.

That link really doesn't say much about how it works just what it does... i dunno, they didn't really convince me. Schroth is a good company though, so once again - up to you.

If your car is eventually going to be a track car, do the roll bar now - it will cost you a bit more now but you won't have to spend it later. Then get the 5 or 6 point, and you'll have your peace of mind.

Just my thoughts - do with it what you want. It's all about risk/cost management - if you know you aren't as "safe," you will (hopefully) drive in consequence.

Just my thoughts :)

figo
December 9th, 2011, 01:04pm
I've been doing some research on safety and track supra's for a while now. To me, it seems like a 4pt is useless but this Schroth ASM 4pt looks decent. It mentions your body can twist a little on impact by the way it's designed but no mention on rolls.

This link gives more info but still not enough


What are your opinions about a 4pt non submarine harness (http://www.schrothracing.com/store/Competition/profi-asm/profi-II-asm)/harnes...

I also agree any 5-6 pt should have a cage and a Hans, I'm just doing some more digging to see if anyone has used this ASM and rolled without a cage.

One month, I want to track only my car since I put most km's around the track or getting there. Other times I want to keep it on the street to cruise on a sunny afternoon with the targa off. That's another thing, if I were to really get into a supra to track, I would of bought a hardtop too... too many pro's and con's. I find that it's extremely hard to have a decent track car and sunny day car, to me it's one or the other. That's why you will see me going CMP with tons of braking space, easy accel and extra cautious, yes my driving does reflect that on the track. It's just a fun ride, but would like to push some limits but I rather have safety aspect covered.

TTC
January 13th, 2012, 09:36pm
Fire kit on casc for great price

Big Red Machine Z06
January 14th, 2012, 02:03pm
I use this for our off-road car, coupled with a 5 pt harness...............

http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/91072023_R.jpg

It is a litttle restrictive with side to side head movement, but it works. TRUST ME.